I am hoping to hear your thoughts on this topic--

My blogging friend, Victor, who lives across the pond and blogs here, recently posted this comment after I blogged about Hero being disobedient-

Same story with God. In olden days He made people listen to Him by thumping them on the head. The Old Testament is full of it. Then came Jesus and it seems God has gone soft on a rebellious disobedient world.

Victor seems to think the consequences of sin have been diminished with the shed blood of Jesus.  I must admit having also questioned whether there are any consequences of sin.  We live in a Fallen World, and evil seems to be flourishing.  Where is God's punishment?  If I ever get to meet Victor face to face, I will shake his hand---for he has helped me to understand a piece of the puzzle in this timeless question.

A question as old as the mystery of what came first--the chicken or the egg?  If there is sin---are there any consequences when we see no evidence of them?

First let me say---if you are a Believer--Jesus paid the price for our sin--so there is no punishment for our sin.  Because we live in a Fallen World, we will sin-even the Believer's sin. BUT because He loves us,  God will discipline us to bring us back into a right relationship with Him AND we will suffer the consequences of our sin.  With God's discipline, we are caused to repent and turn from our sin---but the consequences do not magically disappear. 

HERE is what I have come to understand---IF we do NOT repent--IF we do not turn from our sin---then the consequence is being removed from the presence of God--because we have turned from Him.  What greater punishment--consequence could there be than to no longer know the presence of God? A world devoid of God is a world without hope. 

God has provided the grace that allows us to avoid the punishment.  By God's loving mercy, He disciplines us to draw us back into His presence.  When we turn our back on all He is providing and continue to sin---we effectively turn our back on Him.  When our backs are turned, we are unaware of His presence. 

So Victor, perhaps God does thump us on the head--figuratively---we just need to recognize why our head is hurting!

But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God,
 and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear.
Isaiah 59:2


  1. Thank you Lulu, for mentioning me and for the link. Let me first of all explain to your readers: I am not a priest, pastor, vicar or anything like that. I am an ordinary man who excells at sinning. So my comments should be taken in this context.

    There has not been a generation which did not have the opportunity to know that God exists. God has always made His presence and omnipotence known.

    In olden days He did so through the prophets and people like Abraham, Moses and so on. In those days, people were less sophisticated and intellectual than we are now. They needed strict quidance and "Commandments" on what is right and what is wrong and how they should live. Hence all the rules and regulations they had to obey; and laws about how they should live, about marriage, divorce, revenge, retributuon and so on ... Did you know that "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" was a rule to set up the limits of your revenge; and not a carte blanche for you to beat the hell out of another?

    And in olden days, yes ... God did thump people on the head with plagues, falling walls in Jericho, and many other bad things !!! It was a visible, (instant) punishment for sin and a means of keeping the people on the right path.

    Then, when the time was right, God sent Jesus. Jesus was the means of redemption, of forgiveness, a bridge, once again, between man and God.

    This does not mean that sin stopped, or its consequences no longer exist. People still sinned, but through Christ they had the means to seek forgiveness once again and be at peace with God.

    As you so rightly say, Lulu, there is a consequence to sin. If we do not repent, if we do not seek forgiveness, then we exclude ourselves from the presence of God for eternity. That is the real consequence. WE exclude ourselves from God. It is not He that excludes us from His presence. It is we who choose, through our obstinacy, not to seek forgiveness, and thus suffer the consequences of our sins - a REAL thump on the ehad if there ever was one. And it's a self-inflicted thump on the head.

    God bless you, Lulu. I have learnt a lot from you blog over the years ... (has it really been that long?)

    Then, when the

    1. What a wonderful finish to today's post, Victor-Thank You! Yes it has been a long time & I am thankful for your friendship- you have caused me to think quite a few times !
      Blessings, My Friend!

  2. One has to love Victor and his least I do. So many topics can be breached on this subject, my friend...(and many that I don't dare go as to not upset your readers)---non the less, great post.

    P.S. I wasn't stalling yesterday---Liam had to resend the photo, and I HATE IT. HATE IT, HATE IT, HATE IT. (Yep, issues)

    1. Yes, I am always entertained by Victor's humor and intrigued by his views. Wish you would let it fly-we all need to stop and think instead of blindly plunging forward ! Looking forward to the pictures !
      Blessings, My Friend!

  3. Are you saying punishment-consequence and discipline are two separate things?

  4. Hi Lulu! I wonder if God thumped a lot of heads in the Old Testament, knowing that after Jesus, we'd end up thumping our own?
    Certainly ignoring our saving grace and Savior only hurts us.
    I always enjoy Victor's take on life and spirituality. He has some of the best comments!

    1. Thank you Ceil. You got it very right in that God knew that when Jesus came, and through His sacrifice for us, we'd have a choice - either repent and be at peace with God, or keep thumping ourselves and suffer the consequences of our sins.

      God bless.


Your comments keep my writing and often cause me to think. A written form of a hug or a pat on the back and an occasional slap into reality---I treasure them all!